# Are Meet.coop servers powered by renewable energy?
**URL:** https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323
**Category:** Uncategorized
**Created:** [20 September 2020 12:25 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323 "2020-09-20T12:25:13Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@jdaviescoates](https://forum.meet.coop/u/jdaviescoates)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 12:25 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/1 "2020-09-20T12:25:13Z")
If so, we should highlight that.
If not, we should fix that.
Because, y’ know climate and ecological emergency and all that.
Thanks.
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### Author:  [@jdaviescoates](https://forum.meet.coop/u/jdaviescoates)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 12:27 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/2 "2020-09-20T12:27:17Z")
PS just to add imho renewable does not include biofuels (I only mention this because I’ve come across plenty of companies who claim they are renewable when they are actually powered by drax one of Europe’s biggest polluters).
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### Author:  [@benhylau](https://forum.meet.coop/u/benhylau)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 14:35 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/3 "2020-09-20T14:35:00Z")
Our current production server through Koumbit is powered by [Hydro-Quebec](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydro-Qu%C3%A9bec#Power_generation). Our prospective provider for on-demand servers is OVH, which has multiple facilities but the Canadian one is [OVH Beauharnois](https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/01/17/ovhs-big-green-hydro-powered-facility-in-quebec-opens) which sources energy from the same hydro-electric dam.
None of our servers go as far as buying carbon offsets (these will easily 2x the cost of our services), but renewable energy source is something we take into consideration.
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### Author:  [@jdaviescoates](https://forum.meet.coop/u/jdaviescoates)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 15:53 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/4 "2020-09-20T15:53:32Z")
> [@benhylau](#):
>
> Our current production server through Koumbit is powered by [Hydro-Quebec](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydro-Qu%C3%A9bec#Power_generation). Our prospective provider for on-demand servers is OVH, which has multiple facilities but the Canadian one is [OVH Beauharnois](https://www.datacenterknowledge.com/archives/2013/01/17/ovhs-big-green-hydro-powered-facility-in-quebec-opens) which sources energy from the same hydro-electric dam.
Good to hear, thanks. I would suggest we advertise this fact.
> [@benhylau](#):
>
> None of our servers go as far as buying carbon offsets (these will easily 2x the cost of our services)
You mean to offset the embodied carbon of the servers themselves? or something else? Most carbon offsetting is a bit of a con, so I’m not too concerned about that.
> [@benhylau](#):
>
> renewable energy source is something we take into consideration.
May I suggest that rather than something we just take into consideration, we only ever buy servers that are powered by renewables as a matter of (published) policy. I’d certainly vote for that.
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### Author:  [@benhylau](https://forum.meet.coop/u/benhylau)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 16:06 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/5 "2020-09-20T16:06:39Z")
> [@jdaviescoates](#):
>
> You mean to offset the embodied carbon of the servers themselves? or something else?
Carbon offset [Carbon offsets and credits - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset)
> [@jdaviescoates](#):
>
> May I suggest that rather than something we just take into consideration, we only ever buy servers that are powered by renewables as a matter of (published) policy.
I don’t agree with that approach, because while being environmentally friendly is important, it needs to be balanced with other factors that are important to our mission and practical concerns. Data residency is important, and we should not say we can’t provision a server in your country because your country doesn’t have a renewable source of energy available. There are also practical concerns of how much overhead it is to procure from a lot of providers, which ultimately translates to either free labour to operational members or prohibitive cost of our service offerings.
I think it can be a goal, but we must take things one step at a time.
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### Author:  [@jdaviescoates](https://forum.meet.coop/u/jdaviescoates)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 16:47 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/6 "2020-09-20T16:47:55Z")
> [@benhylau](#):
>
> Carbon offset [Carbon offsets and credits - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_offset)
I know what carbon offsetting is!
It’s mostly a con akin to Catholics paying for their sins. In many ways it acts as a moral hazard that stops people actually changing their behaviour to stop emitting in the first place.
See eg
> **[The Carbon "Offset" Con](https://uniteddiversity.coop/2006/11/01/carbon-con/)**
>
> Here is the text of an e-mail I sent out earlier today:
>
> \> Sorry to smash the illusion folks, but I’ve done considerable research into this
> and carbon “off-sets” are a con.
>
> We cannot neutralise, nor “off-set”, carbon we have already emitted (or...
> **[Carbon Con update](https://uniteddiversity.coop/2007/03/05/carbon-con-update/)**
>
> A while ago, prompted by a load of Hub \[https://www.the-hub.net\] members sending
> details about numerous Carbon “offsetting” companies to the Hub list, I wrote
> The Carbon Con \[https://uniteddiversity.coop/carbon-con\].
>
> One of the comments I got was...
> **[Cheat Neutral](https://uniteddiversity.coop/2008/02/05/cheat-neutral/)**
>
> I’ve written before about the carbon offsetting con
> \[https://uniteddiversity.com/carbon-con/\] and in my update
> \[https://uniteddiversity.com/carbon-con-update/\] I mentioned the wonderful
> Cheat
> Neutral...
Especially the wonderful Cheat Neutral video.
There are some exceptions to this “it’s mostly a con” rule (ie companies/ people who are genuinely doing all they can to minimise their emissions across their whole supply chain and who then offset the remainder with one of the handful of fairly decent non profit offsetting operations who genuinely try to achieve additionallity) , but really not many. Lots of hosting companies who “offset” don’t even also source their energy from sustainable sources.
The question I was asking was about offsetting what exactly.
> [@benhylau](#):
>
> I don’t agree with that approach, because while being environmentally friendly is important, it needs to be balanced with other factors that are important to our mission and practical concerns
We’ll have to agree to disagree. I’d like our members to discuss and collectively decide on policy on this. I would strongly argue for only ever using green servers as nothing is more important than trying to maintain a habitable planet. To paraphrase a popular quote, there is no data privacy on a dead planet.
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### Author:  [@benhylau](https://forum.meet.coop/u/benhylau)
#### Post date: [20 September 2020 17:03 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/7 "2020-09-20T17:03:27Z")
re: carbon offset, it’s never something I looked into deeply but some hosts advertise it as something that they do. When I mentioned it, it’s the Wikipedia definition that I was referring to, in case it has multiple meanings. At [Meet.coop](http://Meet.coop) it’s not something we discussed and is not something we are pursuing. So I guess we can’t pay for our sins 😉
> [@jdaviescoates](#):
>
> I’d like our members to discuss and collectively decide on policy on this. I would strongly argue for only ever using green servers as nothing is more important than trying to maintain a habitable planet.
Regarding this, I agree it can be a topic of collective discussion. Perhaps someone can also help research [these OVH facilities](https://us.ovhcloud.com/about/company/data-centers) to see which subset qualifies for the renewable energy criteria so we can have a better evaluation of trade-offs?
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### Author:  [@osb](https://forum.meet.coop/u/osb)
#### Post date: [20 November 2020 11:06 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/8 "2020-11-20T11:06:32Z")
I took on the task ([in the Deck](https://cloud.meet.coop/apps/deck/#/board/8/card/94)) to sort out what we will say on our website about this.
My proposal is to add the following wording to the current (and new) site asap:
> [Meet.coop](http://Meet.coop) is dedicated to supporting the transition to a zero carbon economy. We want all our servers to be powered by renewables and are working to transition away from any services which are not. At present we use the following servers:
>
> - Koumbit - powered by hydro
> - OVH - powered by hydro
> - DigLife - currently unknown and under review
> - Hetzner - powered by renewables
> - WebArchitects - powered by Good Energy
>
> We understand there are many complex issues to take into consideration when assessing environmental impacts, from the greater efficiency and reduced heat loss from newer, more efficient data centres - through to the social impacts of displacement associated with hydro power. Our aim is to operate our services with the minimum environmental impact and we will continue to review our procurement choices accordingly.
I am not quite sure what the decision making process is / who needs to sign off on things like this…?
Or what the decision making policy is on the forum in general…?
But how about - I wait for a week and for feedback / comments and if there are no objections, I go ahead?
@Graham - any update on info RE the DigLife server?
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### Author:  [@benhylau](https://forum.meet.coop/u/benhylau)
#### Post date: [20 November 2020 18:26 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/9 "2020-11-20T18:26:42Z")
I would change OVH to `OVH Beauharnois` because that is their specific dc on Hydro and we chose it for that.
Maybe a link to [Webarchitects’ page](https://www.webarchitects.co.uk/green-energy) or their Good Energy provider page? Since it’s not a well known term.
I feel we have already discussed this text sufficiently in Org/Product that I’d feel comfortable going ahead with it.
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### Author:  [@osb](https://forum.meet.coop/u/osb)
#### Post date: [23 November 2020 12:59 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/10 "2020-11-23T12:59:34Z")
good suggestions - thanks @benhylau 😉
I will wait for more and if no one objects I will add your thoughts and push this live
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### Author:  [@dvdjaco](https://forum.meet.coop/u/dvdjaco)
#### Post date: [25 November 2020 10:32 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/11 "2020-11-25T10:32:27Z")
I think the wording is good, with the change suggested by @benhylau
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### Author:  [@jdaviescoates](https://forum.meet.coop/u/jdaviescoates)
#### Post date: [25 November 2020 17:25 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/12 "2020-11-25T17:25:22Z")
I think the wording is great.
But also, re:
> [@osb](#):
>
> - Koumbit - powered by hydro
> - OVH - powered by hydro
> - DigLife - currently unknown and under review
> - Hetzner - powered by renewables
> - WebArchitects - powered by Good Energy
When can we get access to these?!? I’d really love to start using the UK based Web Architects server.
BTW, some other renewable powered providers (in no particular order) include:
> **[netcup GmbH - Your partner for web hosting, root server, managed servers,...](https://www.netcup.eu/)**
>
> Your partner for web hosting, root server, managed server, domains, SSL certificates and more.
> **[Europe's empowering cloud provider | Scaleway](https://www.scaleway.com/en/)**
>
> Build, train, deploy and scale AI models and intelligent applications on a resilient and sustainable cloud ecosystem.
> **[London VPS - Affordable Hosting Plans for Every Budget](https://www.vpsserver.com/vps-london/)**
>
> Trust London VPS for secure and scalable hosting solutions. Our
> **[1984 - Safe hosting in Iceland](https://1984.hosting/)**
>
> 1984 is a green ethical hosting company in Iceland. Founded in 2006, 1984 has been dedicated to freedom of speech. We offer the traditional ready to use webhosting with mail services. VPS with preconfigured Wireguard setup, OpenVPN, Nextcloud and...
> **[Virtual Private Server](https://greenhost.net/products/vps/)**
>
> Value-driven, reliable and renewable digital infrastructure. We believe in internet freedom, privacy and human rights, and provide state-of-the-art hosting and cloud services.
[https://krystal.uk/cloud-vps](https://krystal.uk/cloud-vps)
[https://cloudabove.com/servers](https://cloudabove.com/servers)
[https://www.gandi.net/en-GB/cloud](https://www.gandi.net/en-GB/cloud)
[https://www.greennet.org.uk/internet-services/hosting/starter-virtual-dedicated-server](https://www.greennet.org.uk/internet-services/hosting/starter-virtual-dedicated-server)
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### Author:  [@osb](https://forum.meet.coop/u/osb)
#### Post date: [25 November 2020 20:53 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/13 "2020-11-25T20:53:19Z")
thanks Josef - u made me realise I need to spell out what each server is being used for what (not all of them are for BBB) only the .ca server is in public use for BBB so far - and the demo runs on the DigLife server, but hopefully we’ll be able to make Hetzner available for Members to use soon
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### Author:  [@osb](https://forum.meet.coop/u/osb)
#### Post date: [17 December 2020 17:46 UTC](https://forum.meet.coop/t/are-meet-coop-servers-powered-by-renewable-energy/323/14 "2020-12-17T17:46:42Z")
I added the text about renewables in the FAQ section of the new site: [https://www.wp.meet.coop/faq/#renewables](https://www.wp.meet.coop/faq/#renewables) (currently locked but hopefully going live soon) - and linked to it from the home page intro … as I think this is important info