I’m wondering if anyone has done any modelling about the financials for meet.coop?
For example, I think it would be really interesting to look at some numbers for:
Number of concurrent users the existing servers can handle
Cost to rent / buy these servers
Sys Admin costs to keep these servers up and running
Any other meet.coop costs
Possible price points for offering video services to individuals
Possible price points for offering video services to orgs (if we can / want to differentiate this way!?)
Once we have a few of these numbers we could work out a business plan and P&L and design a draft marketing plan…
I imagine that, if it was designed and marketed effectively - meet.coop could generate enough income to pay everyone who contributes to essential tasks quite well… AND generate a healthy surplus which could be invested in the development of further tools to expand meet.coop’s growth and potential… whilst also empowering a community of collaborators with similar values. This is something I have wanted to help build for a LONG time - and I would be very interested in working on the business planning and marketing side of things in order to try and help make meet.coop a success!
If anyone can provide me with some numbers for any of the above, no matter how draft, it will enable us to start developing a possible business plan for discusion…
I think part of the equation might depend on robust redundancy and fallback design. If we can do that, I think we will be able to throw in various cheap nodes and even ask the users to throw in their own servers. (We will need to work out how pricing may work for such cases - it might be similar to household renewable power sale to the grid)
I am not sure whether BBB can do these or we need to develop our own software.
Anyway, I think the operational cost estimate might differ hugely depending on how we optimize our video conference system
I think the operational cost estimate might differ hugely depending on how we optimize our video conference system
That is of course very true!
What I was hoping for was a rough idea of the current costs for what we have set up now - which we know worked OK for OPEN - and could probably have handled more… at least if we have some basic costs we can work out possible pricing based on a cost + margin model.
I think the idea of people providing servers etc is great - but is for further down the line once we have some income and know how we want to evolve…
Yes, I totally agree. I am no expert can only speculate but if I may:
$5.99 / mo kind of basic, oversold, best-effort-basis service for the multi-stakeholder members. The members also agree that they are taking part in this experiment and will take part in future updates of service fees and terms
Negotiable prices for events (like Open)
Sorry, not very much information but that’s what came to my mind
I would estimate that the current server could handle around 200 concurrent users, but the most we have had so far is around 55 and I’m not sure how many of those 55 concurrent users had their webcams on and this was only when one room was in use. I have been posting some graphs from the server on this thread:
We have has considerable support from Koumbit and @Sebas891, they have provided and provisioned the ca.meet.coop server and the turn.ca.meet.coop VPS for a non-commercial cost, on a trial basis, as an experiment and we have been asked not to make the amount we are going to be charged by them public — they are a “producer member” of the co-op, perhaps this information could be shared on a private thread?
The demo.meet.coop has been provided at no cost to us by The Digital Life Collective, the dev.meet.coop server has been provided at no cost by FOSSHOST and the bbb.webarch.org.uk and turn.bbb.webarch.org.uk development servers have been provided by Webarchitects, no money has been exchanged for any of these servers.
Only a few people have been tracking their time using our time tracker:
Of the time recorded there from when it was setup on 7th May 2020 to 21st June 2020 there is a total of 212 hours recorded, of these 112 are recorded as DevOps / sysadmin.
We have been trying to keep track of these on the contributions wiki page but I expect there are lots of things missing from there.
My feeling is that the the best and most relevant information to answer your question might actually be in the hands of ColloCall as they are several months ahead of us in the provision and selling of BigBlueButton based services, perhaps @hng might be able to share some information on this if we create a private thread for it?
Longer term, we can work on the livestreaming (imagine OBS integration and closed-captioning) & video post-processing pipeline (automated encoding into 720p and 1080p versions and semi-automated publish to desired platforms after a manual review step). It’s software development, but no one else currently offers a good end-to-end solution.
I’d say that’s interesting especially when they want to pay for the actual time it requires to set that up and not according to a predefined “service level” package. Currently we are making a rough estimate to approximate as good as we can to 1) user needs and 2) real costs. Both we can only now after some while. So if you manage to sell to large customers, it would need to be a custom deal with DevOps committing to that, right?
I feel that right now we’re not in that game yet, but I might be mistaken
Let me recall that we have a shared spreadsheet tracking currently committed Income & Expenses. The internal link for those who have an account on the NextCloud server: https://cloud.meet.coop/f/280
Maybe of interest, with CommonsCloud we have done a rough estimate to reach break-even and be able to pay a our team a few days a week do for the key functions, it gets to a few hundred organisations and approx 2000 individuals, depending on where you set priorities. Right now we are 5 organisations and 25 individuals having a total of 500 accounts there. So still a long way to go to base sustainability in the member contributions.
Back to meet.coop a rough initial approximation, like on the back of the metaphorical envelop:
Imagine a level where we get to 200 user organisations contributing approx 50€/month
Imagine that in parallel we reach a similar number of individual members contributing 10€/month
That would sum up an annual revenue of 144.000€
Imagine that we’d be able to handle that with 10-12 dedicated machines at 300€/month, ca. 40k€
With a remaining ca. 100k€ for labour compensation, what could be done to compensate the key workers a few days a week?
To reach such level of user members will require effort from all of us, without there being much revenue in the start.
In my view we’ll need public/private funding to kickstart key improvements or developments. I don’t think that we can invest voluntarily in serious development - or that would be a substantial donation by those persons. Key areas of improvement / development we have been mentioning so far:
onboarding and user account management with Single Sign On
YES! What do we need NOW?
Can we get the Open.coop offering to host us at OpenCollective up and running?
And meanwhile we work on with the detailed business plan? Count me in.
I’m re-booting this thread having calculated a few numbers, based on our Revenue, Costs of Services and hours contributed in the last quarter.
Check out the spreadsheet and have a play with the numbers if you like (for example, try changing the target hourly rate).
What this tells us is, [in Scenario 1] if we want to pay our contributors our target hourly rate of £60 we would need ~ 604 Members - i.e. we need 11 x growth (which might just be doable if we were to focus ALL the hours we ALL put in on sales!?)
Or, [in Scenario 2] if the existing number of contributors (8) were to all work 2 days / week on Meet.coop (which is probably more realistically what we need to grow successfully?) we would need ~ 1766 Members - i.e. we need 32 x growth.
I’d be very interested in your thoughts on this - and a deeper conversation about the possibility of allocating “points” (or credits, or whatever you want to call them) to contributors for the difference between what we are able to pay them and our target hourly rate - until we are able to pay people properly - which could then be ‘paid back’ in fiat (actual £), once we are sustainable…