Offers & wants

This is to discuss the thread 6 Offers & wants emerging from the meeting on Shared learning spaces, 15mar2021. Those with an interest include Gary Alexander, Wouter Tebbens, Mike Hales. Maybe Micky Metts?

@garyalex I just noticed this link, in the website of ReflowOS How to start using and populating the network · ReflowOS - Collecting offers and needs

This is the CommonsPub protocol, under a different name: ZenPub. Embraces ValueFlows, ActivityPub.

Is this consistent with your Holo-oriented local development @ Suffolk, d’you think? Or do the basic protocols - ZenPub, Holo - clash in some way, or go off at tangents?

@mikemh Very interesting! Thanks for pointing this out Mike. I’ve just had a good look at the ReflowOS website. Their thinking, as I understand it, is similar to that of the HoloREA people. They provide a very detailed breakdown of a supply chain and distribution process, which means you can, in principle, optimise it for quality and environmental impact, not just money flows. I think that is excellent, and certainly goes a lot further than my own thinking.

However, this seems to me to be a very advanced view of what would be needed in the future, and very far from the commercial realities of the present. They seem to have concentrated on the software, and have prototypes nearing usability, but I can see no sign of a social model. How do they see this working in a community? For example, if you sign up a small shop or food producer, what are you expecting of them? Do they have to list all sorts of details of each of their products and of the suppliers to them?

I am pleased to see work like this going on, but it is very far from what I have been thinking about. My emphasis at the moment is finding groups where there is a natural need and opportunity for them to want to explore mutual support. That is hard enough, much less getting into details of supply chain optimisation.

@bhaugen or Lynn Foster are people whoi might say more on this I think. Bob & Lynn are ValueFlows, not ZenPub/Bonfire, but have a connection w Reflow (also Holo, and Open App Ecosystems, in a general way). They are strong cooperators in their US region, bioregion enthusiasts, and always look for practical applications, not just architecture.

I wonder how much more @wouter knows about Circular Cities/doughnut cities, in implementing this architecture?

Thanks for the ping, @mikemh

Bonfire is the new name of CommonsPub/ZenPub/etc and I think will stick.

Reflow does plan to use Valueflows and has fairly strong social support, especially Amsterdam, which is also a pilot for Kate Raworth’s Donut Economy, so they seem to be cookin’.

And hello again @garyalex -

https://www.mutualaidnetwork.org/ are also looking at Bonfire, and the devs are working on offers and wants as well as the circular economy features.

Mike asked in social.coop how soon the software will be ready for use, and I have stopped predicting. I’ll leave that to the devs.

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All y’all offers and wants fans might also want to check out Webofneeds which also uses Valueflows.

They are pretty far ahead on matching services.

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One other thing: Bonfire and Holo-REA use the same Valueflows API:

Don’t know if WebofNeeds will go that far, but if opportunities for interop appear, I think they will.

Bonfire and Holo-REA use the same Valueflows API

Is that the hook your Holo project might be needing @garyalex ?

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Both Holo-REA and Bonfire intend to be very customizable, both for communities and individual organizations and people. I expect that if a small shop or food producer signs up, they will be able to list as much detail as they want. (But that’s my expectations as somebody who is helping a bit with both projects and knows some of what they are thinking, but is not a hands-on developer.)

I’ve checked the webofneeds repo. It seems still active. I couldn’t find any email address or contact details for the team or the maintainers. Have you guys ever been in contact with any of them? I would be really interested in speaking to them to see what they are up to.